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Hillary Clinton 2008

I'm aware that I might get nailed for this post, but I'm taking a…

Hillary Clinton 2008

Hillary Clinton

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+ retrace my steps my choice my plan +
I'm aware that I might get nailed for this post, but I'm taking a chance anyway, because I honestly want to know. This community was once a safe-haven for me, a place where I could voice my opinion without worrying about having to defend everything I wrote, down to the last period. I miss that.



But onto the actual point of this post. It's disheartening to see so many Hillary supporters here jumping on the McCain wagon so quickly. If you're someone who casts their votes in Presidential elections based on personality, I see his appeal over someone who the primary season has taught us to despise. But if you are policy voter, as many of you seem to be, the obvious choice is not McCain, but Obama.

Personally, I dislike Obama. I dislike his cockiness, his elitism, his need to be a long-lost Kennedy. But his policies are the most similar to Hillary's, and while I still feel hers are superior, she's sadly no longer a viable option.

Since Bush Jr. entered office, I've been holding my breath hoping that Breyer, Stevens, and Souter don't retire (or die, but I'd prefer not to be morbid) from the Supreme Court until a Democrat reaches office. I'm less worried about Ginsberg, because she has, God bless her, gone on record saying she's not leaving until the Chief Executive is a Democrat. Stevens is 88 though, and the swing vote, Kennedy, is 71. Obama's stance on abortion isn't so vague that we have no idea how he would handle choosing replacements for the Court. However, McCain's position is crystal clear: given the chance, he will overturn R v. W. As a feminist, but more so as someone who loves the freedoms she's been given, it bothers me that so many of you are perfectly willing to allow this mixture of church and state. The same goes for same-sex marriage. No, Obama's policies aren't perfect, but they're a lot easier to swallow than McCain's.

I'm not asking you to hop on the unity wagon and be happy about it. I'm not even sold on the idea of her becoming his VP. I just love my country, and the last thing it needs right now is another Republican.

For the record, no, I am not a straight-ticket Dem.
  • My intention was not to offend you. I've been offended by many things said in this community lately -- even after the decision was made to remain respectful. I'm simply voicing my own, personal opinion. I'm sorry it doesn't fit with yours.

    To be completely honest though, this is a Hillary Clinton community. It stands to reason that you are probably going to hear a few negative things about a Republican candidate.

    I hope that this comment comes off as sincere; I'm honestly not trying to start a war, I'm sorry you feel that I am. We're discussing politics, debates are healthy.
    • I'm sure it wasn't your intention to offend, but surely you didn't think that this came off as kind toward McCain supporters? If you've been offended by things said in the community lately, then that isn't right either, and you should bring it to the attention of the mods. Both of them made it clear that people need to respect what decisions the members have made, and if you have something to post that is either anti-Obama or anti-McCain, then it needs to be under a cut so that both parties can avoid entires they don't want to read.

      And yeah, this is a Hillary Clinton community. It also stands to reason that you're going to hear a few negative things about Obama, like for instance, how we did during the entire primary. I realize members have now decided to vote for him, so he's a bit more off-limits. But McCain doesn't deserve the same courtesy because he's a Republican? Members have decided to vote for him, but he's not off-limits because this is a Hillary community and he's a Republican? No, sorry, doesn't fly with me. That knife cuts both ways.

      I know your not trying to start a war, but you prefaced this post with "I'm probably going to get nailed for this" so I'm thinking you knew very well that you were on thin ice. Just as I'm sure you wouldn't like me posting an entry about why McCain is the better candidate and voting otherwise isn't the obvious choice, I don't appreciate being told that Obama is the better candidate and I'm not voting the obvious choice.
      • I would have prefaced any entry here lately with the same statement, even if it was the most tame statement of all time regarding any candidate. I also regret using the word "obvious" in my post because it's been twisted into making me sound like anyone who votes for McCain is delusional, which is not what the post is at all about. I merely meant that for sheer Clinton policy voters Obama would be the "obvious" choice, as his policies align with hers the most. But no, I don't mind pro-McCain posts, as long as they're not nonsensical. I tried hard to make this post as open to debate as possible.
        • Well, I don't know what you've read that makes you feel the need to tip-toe around, but that's unfortunate. If something bothered you to such a degree you should say something, if you haven't already. People should be comfortable here. Two months ago everyone in this community were friends, and now we're putting on our armor and readying our blades.

          I knew what context you were using "obvious" for, I only said that as an example. I have no doubt that you were simply looking for a debate here, or just explanations, but Clinton supporters who have decided to go with McCain are being blasted everywhere, which is why I was upset to see it here.
          • Two months ago everyone in this community were friends, and now we're putting on our armor and readying our blades.

            Honestly, that's the reason I posted to begin with, I miss that. I'm truly sorry that you've been blasted everywhere else, and can assure you it's been difficult for me as someone who is very reluctantly supporting a candidate so loved by his "true" supporters.
  • I find it surprising that people continued to blast Obama here after the primary was over, but an unkind word against McCain is intolerable???
    • I will never understand it.

      Completely off-topic, but I love your icon.
      • Ya, I mean, she has come out to support him and he will help her get her own goals accomplished, right? So a vote for Obama is at least some percentage of a vote for Clinton and a vote for McCain is a vote against Clinton.

        Thanks for the Icon love.
        • Exactly, this is politics as usual whether or not we admit it. She will further her career under an Obama presidency, it's not a question.
    • An unkind word against McCain isn't intolerable. I'm all for people blasting McCain here as much as Obama. But targeting the supporters of either isn't right.
      • Exactly. I mean, in all seriousness, I totally hate McCain! But I'm voting for him because I think an Obama presidency would be disastrous on an international level, and I'm really, really tired of being told that I'm stupid for doing so, which is what it sounded like the post was implying. I miss us all being friends (a lot), but things aren't going to get better if we attack supporters for their beliefs or bemoan the fact that people don't vote based on the policies THEY think are important.

        To the OP: I'm genuinely sorry if I offended you by "twisting your words" (especially because I'm still not sure how I did so, because I am voting based on policy), and I wish we could all be friends too!

        Edited at 2008-06-30 03:20 am (UTC)
        • And that totally wasn't clear at all. On the first part, I really meant to say that we all have different policies that are important to us.

    • The problem isn't that it's an unkind word, it's an unfounded claim (re: the hideous SCOTUS threat).

      Again, SCOTUS already has the votes to flip Roe if they were given the opportunity. They just haven't been given an opportunity.

      And just as Obama has bullshit on his website re: his platform to pander and appease his lefty base, so does McCain (re: bullshit on his website/platform to pander and appease his righty base).

      “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” -- Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999

      Of course, McCain realizes that the evangelicals can't stand him because of that, so he came up with this excuse:

      Q: In 1999, you said, "In the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force X number of women in American to undergo illegal and dangerous operations."

      A: That was in the context of conversation about having to change the culture of America as regards to this issue. I have stated time after time after time that Roe v. Wade was a bad decision, that I support the rights of the unborn.

      Q: If Roe v. Wade was overturned during a McCain presidency, and individual states chose to ban abortion, would you be concerned that, as you said, X number of women in America would undergo illegal and dangerous operations?

      A: No, I would hope that X women in America would bring those children into life in this world, and that I could do whatever I could to assist them. Again, that conversation from 1999, so often quoted, was in the context of my concerns about changing the culture in America to understand the importance of the rights of the unborn.

      Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series May 13, 2007


      In August 1999, McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle that he would "not support repeal of Roe vs Wade" because it would force women to undergo illegal operations. He has subsequently said that he was speaking about the need to change the "culture of America", and supports the repeal of Roe vs Wade. -- Source: GovWatch on 2008 campaign: "Top Ten Flip-Flops" Feb 5, 2008

      I think he really doesn't support controlling peoples' lives to a degree that would put them in danger and that he really doesn't support it, but his party got pissed off at him for speaking his mind, so he flipped.

      Just like the PUMAs laughing at the lefties who're getting pissed off about Obama's support of FISA. You can really tell what a person's real opinion is if it pisses someone off. How many flips can we expect from Obama to appease the party? How many have happened so far (particularly telling with what he did to Wright)?
  • It's hard for both camps, I understand that. And believe me, I know how hard it was for people to go with Obama in the end. I'm just tired of reading this same line of thought everywhere I go, it's like I'm being told I'm wrong even if that may not have been the intention.
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