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Hillary Clinton 2008

I'm aware that I might get nailed for this post, but I'm taking a…

Hillary Clinton 2008

Hillary Clinton

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+ retrace my steps my choice my plan +
I'm aware that I might get nailed for this post, but I'm taking a chance anyway, because I honestly want to know. This community was once a safe-haven for me, a place where I could voice my opinion without worrying about having to defend everything I wrote, down to the last period. I miss that.

But onto the actual point of this post. It's disheartening to see so many Hillary supporters here jumping on the McCain wagon so quickly. If you're someone who casts their votes in Presidential elections based on personality, I see his appeal over someone who the primary season has taught us to despise. But if you are policy voter, as many of you seem to be, the obvious choice is not McCain, but Obama.

Personally, I dislike Obama. I dislike his cockiness, his elitism, his need to be a long-lost Kennedy. But his policies are the most similar to Hillary's, and while I still feel hers are superior, she's sadly no longer a viable option.

Since Bush Jr. entered office, I've been holding my breath hoping that Breyer, Stevens, and Souter don't retire (or die, but I'd prefer not to be morbid) from the Supreme Court until a Democrat reaches office. I'm less worried about Ginsberg, because she has, God bless her, gone on record saying she's not leaving until the Chief Executive is a Democrat. Stevens is 88 though, and the swing vote, Kennedy, is 71. Obama's stance on abortion isn't so vague that we have no idea how he would handle choosing replacements for the Court. However, McCain's position is crystal clear: given the chance, he will overturn R v. W. As a feminist, but more so as someone who loves the freedoms she's been given, it bothers me that so many of you are perfectly willing to allow this mixture of church and state. The same goes for same-sex marriage. No, Obama's policies aren't perfect, but they're a lot easier to swallow than McCain's.

I'm not asking you to hop on the unity wagon and be happy about it. I'm not even sold on the idea of her becoming his VP. I just love my country, and the last thing it needs right now is another Republican.

For the record, no, I am not a straight-ticket Dem.
  • I'm really, really sick of being chastised for choosing McCain.
  • I think part of this for me is WHY people choose McCain when policy issues are so oppositie end of the spectrum...

    • There's a lot of reasons. It doesn't mean we're wrong.
    • This is not all about policy. Some of us just don't trust Obama. I don't think we should have to explain it every time someone doesn't understand why we prefer McCain over him. I've explained a few times. I get a little tired of it after a while.

      The short version is that Obama has ties to some pretty horrible people. What he says and what he does do not match up. He is in support of a blood relative who wanted to make Shariah Law mandatory in Kenya, who was in support of radical jihad, and whose actions resulted in the hunting and murdering of many innocent people who were part of another Kenyan tribe and race (we call this genocide) and another religion (jihad). Obama supported this man, his cousin Odinga, by campaigning with him during a visit to Kenya. And I will NEVER support a man who supports another man who does those things.

      And this is not going in depth regarding Wright, Ayers, Black Liberation Theology, his half-hearted concern for the Dem base, and his refusal to speak out against the crimes and abuse that have been committed in his name.

      I can't speak for everyone else here, but those are reasons why I will not vote for him. The guy shows all the signs of a despot, and I refuse to be a part of anything that will bring him into power. I honestly think McCain is the lesser evil.

      Now, I understand you may not believe this. You might think Obama is an okay guy who is just sort of rude and chooses his friends poorly. That's okay. But please try to understand where some of us do come from and why we will not vote for him. I am willing to respect your choice and beliefs as long as I receive some respect for mine.
      • You might think Obama is an okay guy who is just sort of rude and chooses his friends poorly.

        To be honest with you, this sounds a lot more condescending towards me than anything I wrote in the original post. I know the things you mentioned above, I'm not an uniformed voter that is all of a sudden hopping on the Obama train to hopesville. It took a lot of careful consideration on my part to even get this far.
        • Ugh. Please try not to be offended over that. I wasn't insinuating anything of the sort. What I was trying to say, which I thought was incredibly clear, is that I understand if you think it's all circumstantial. In other words, his past behavior and relationships were the cause of his naïveté.

          You, the person I replied to, and others claimed to be curious and to not understand why someone would prefer McCain. I was trying to give all of you the benefit of the doubt, but it keeps looking more and more like you're only desire is to be offended by those who do not agree with you. :/

          Please let me know if I'm wrong, but that the impression I get from your reply. I honestly see it as a real stretch to get think what I said is condescending.
          • I'm genuinely sorry if I misinterpreted your comment. I'm not trying to see how many people I can get to disagree with me, and I feel like I've been unfairly typecast as an Obama-loving freak, which I am not.

            Honestly, I was not trying to start anything with this post. I sat back and didn't say anything when I saw posts that I found offensive because I knew that when I did I got hammered for it. I'm sorry this community isn't as loving as it used to be.
            • It's okay. I just don't want you to think I was trying to be rude. I'm not out to get you. I don't think anyone is. Emotions are just very high. For me, this is a very big deal. I'm very very upset with Obama. I'm incredibly concerned. But it's because of the way things look to me. It's just something so important to me that it trumps policy.

              I don't hate you for preferring Obama. It is a bit frustrating, but I respect your right to choose and make decisions you think are in your best interest. I won't outright attack you or anyone for that reason. But I also feel somewhat afraid to comment on things because those on the other side are just as passionate as I am.

              I think we just need to try being more patient with each other.
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  • For real, right? I have no problem with anyone choosing Obama, but I resent being told that an Obama vote is "the obvious choice."
    • I didn't say it was the obvious choice for everyone -- I said it was the obvious choice for those that vote based primarily on policies. Please stop twisting my words, thanks.
    • Yeah, I'm all sorts of mad right now. I really didn't want to come on LJ today and read this. Especially after the mods made it quite clear that the community is to remain respectful to people who have chosen either McCain or Obama. There were two posts about it!

      So much for that then. As if I needed any more reason to stick to the pro-McCain/PUMA websites. It's such a pity there's a war among Clinton supporters now.
      • My intention was not to offend you. I've been offended by many things said in this community lately -- even after the decision was made to remain respectful. I'm simply voicing my own, personal opinion. I'm sorry it doesn't fit with yours.

        To be completely honest though, this is a Hillary Clinton community. It stands to reason that you are probably going to hear a few negative things about a Republican candidate.

        I hope that this comment comes off as sincere; I'm honestly not trying to start a war, I'm sorry you feel that I am. We're discussing politics, debates are healthy.
        • I'm sure it wasn't your intention to offend, but surely you didn't think that this came off as kind toward McCain supporters? If you've been offended by things said in the community lately, then that isn't right either, and you should bring it to the attention of the mods. Both of them made it clear that people need to respect what decisions the members have made, and if you have something to post that is either anti-Obama or anti-McCain, then it needs to be under a cut so that both parties can avoid entires they don't want to read.

          And yeah, this is a Hillary Clinton community. It also stands to reason that you're going to hear a few negative things about Obama, like for instance, how we did during the entire primary. I realize members have now decided to vote for him, so he's a bit more off-limits. But McCain doesn't deserve the same courtesy because he's a Republican? Members have decided to vote for him, but he's not off-limits because this is a Hillary community and he's a Republican? No, sorry, doesn't fly with me. That knife cuts both ways.

          I know your not trying to start a war, but you prefaced this post with "I'm probably going to get nailed for this" so I'm thinking you knew very well that you were on thin ice. Just as I'm sure you wouldn't like me posting an entry about why McCain is the better candidate and voting otherwise isn't the obvious choice, I don't appreciate being told that Obama is the better candidate and I'm not voting the obvious choice.
          • I would have prefaced any entry here lately with the same statement, even if it was the most tame statement of all time regarding any candidate. I also regret using the word "obvious" in my post because it's been twisted into making me sound like anyone who votes for McCain is delusional, which is not what the post is at all about. I merely meant that for sheer Clinton policy voters Obama would be the "obvious" choice, as his policies align with hers the most. But no, I don't mind pro-McCain posts, as long as they're not nonsensical. I tried hard to make this post as open to debate as possible.
            • Well, I don't know what you've read that makes you feel the need to tip-toe around, but that's unfortunate. If something bothered you to such a degree you should say something, if you haven't already. People should be comfortable here. Two months ago everyone in this community were friends, and now we're putting on our armor and readying our blades.

              I knew what context you were using "obvious" for, I only said that as an example. I have no doubt that you were simply looking for a debate here, or just explanations, but Clinton supporters who have decided to go with McCain are being blasted everywhere, which is why I was upset to see it here.
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      • Please stay. This will continue to be addressed. Seriously.
        • I'm not leaving, I don't mean it that way. I mean spending more time elsewhere. If I were going to leave I would have the last time this happened. You and stillife have done a great job here, and I met some great people, I couldn't just leave.
        • Honestly, I don't feel that this is the most offensive post I've seen here. I applaud your efforts to keep this community sane, but I don't think this crosses the line. It's not meant to offend anyone or demean anyone's reasoning, I wanted an honest debate over the candidates and their stances in relation to our favorite candidate, Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton.
          • I get that. We decided a long time ago that this wasn't meant to be a debate community, but a supportive one. However, we're in a very different boat now, so maybe it's time to reassess that.

            I don't think that this post is way over the line either. But we MUST be sensitive to the tone of this stuff, because right now we're all a little tender from the fight. So people who are supporting the PUMA movement have to be careful not to cast Obama voters as mindless drones who are falling in line, and Obama voters have to be careful not to cast PUMAs as petulant reactionaries throwing a tantrum at the cost of progressive causes. We just have to be very careful with our exact wordings and tone to avoid raising hackles.
            • We decided a long time ago that this wasn't meant to be a debate community, but a supportive one. However, we're in a very different boat now, so maybe it's time to reassess that.

              I dunno, I think everyone here still supports Hillary! I never agreed with all her decisions for myself, and I don't agree with the Unity decision for myself although I completely support her having made the right decision for her own political future. I have no doubt the climate will allow me to meet her on the other side of this.

              So people who are supporting the PUMA movement have to be careful not to cast Obama voters as mindless drones who are falling in line, and Obama voters have to be careful not to cast PUMAs as petulant reactionaries throwing a tantrum at the cost of progressive causes.

              Thank you.
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