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Hillary Clinton 2008

I'm aware that I might get nailed for this post, but I'm taking a…

Hillary Clinton 2008

Hillary Clinton

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+ retrace my steps my choice my plan +
I'm aware that I might get nailed for this post, but I'm taking a chance anyway, because I honestly want to know. This community was once a safe-haven for me, a place where I could voice my opinion without worrying about having to defend everything I wrote, down to the last period. I miss that.

But onto the actual point of this post. It's disheartening to see so many Hillary supporters here jumping on the McCain wagon so quickly. If you're someone who casts their votes in Presidential elections based on personality, I see his appeal over someone who the primary season has taught us to despise. But if you are policy voter, as many of you seem to be, the obvious choice is not McCain, but Obama.

Personally, I dislike Obama. I dislike his cockiness, his elitism, his need to be a long-lost Kennedy. But his policies are the most similar to Hillary's, and while I still feel hers are superior, she's sadly no longer a viable option.

Since Bush Jr. entered office, I've been holding my breath hoping that Breyer, Stevens, and Souter don't retire (or die, but I'd prefer not to be morbid) from the Supreme Court until a Democrat reaches office. I'm less worried about Ginsberg, because she has, God bless her, gone on record saying she's not leaving until the Chief Executive is a Democrat. Stevens is 88 though, and the swing vote, Kennedy, is 71. Obama's stance on abortion isn't so vague that we have no idea how he would handle choosing replacements for the Court. However, McCain's position is crystal clear: given the chance, he will overturn R v. W. As a feminist, but more so as someone who loves the freedoms she's been given, it bothers me that so many of you are perfectly willing to allow this mixture of church and state. The same goes for same-sex marriage. No, Obama's policies aren't perfect, but they're a lot easier to swallow than McCain's.

I'm not asking you to hop on the unity wagon and be happy about it. I'm not even sold on the idea of her becoming his VP. I just love my country, and the last thing it needs right now is another Republican.

For the record, no, I am not a straight-ticket Dem.
  • *applauds*

    While we're at it, let's compare McCain's stance on Iraq (We do still care that our people and theirs are dying there, right? That seems to be slipping people's minds) and health care. This country is in desperate need of universal health care.

    I've read arguments that we should let McCain go ahead and make everything worse, so Hillary will be in a good position to run for prez again in four years. That's playing games, and is putting Hillary above other people's lives. I don't think she'd thank us for it.
  • Oh dear! I hope you don't get nailed for this post. That's not cool. This is usually a super-friendly community. And I absolutely adore how you posted links to prove your points - more knowledge in this area is what people need. I couldn't vote for McCain because in my observations he is clearly much worse than Obama on the issues that I loved Hillary for - education, gay rights, women's rights, health care, Iraq, etc. Even while I see Obama do sketchy stuff everyday lately, he is still better for me than McCain.
  • I'm really, really sick of being chastised for choosing McCain.
  • I wanted Clinton because she was tough on foreign policy and her domestic issues were aligned with my opinions.

    I can't trust Obama on foreign issues at all. I think his intentions are good, but after his comments re: sitting down with Iran without preconditions and his invading Pakistan comments, I'm pretty sure he's going to be a disaster in foreign policy, unintentionally, yeah, but I think he's going to seriously f**k things up in a way I really don't think McCain will (I did think Bush was going to because he was as rhetorically mushy as I find Obama).

    OTOH, as you point out, I'm no fan of Republican domestic policies.

    There's more at stake here, for some people like me, than short-term defense of abortion rights, including the struggle for the heart of the Democratic party, and the way in which misogyny and sexism is allowed to motivate the choice we've been given. Which is worse, the possibility that a ruling will be overturned which will probably turn abortion rights back to state decisions? or the actual misogyny and sexism in action which was such a part of the process of this nomination? Which one should I protest, and work against?

    Frankly, I'm rather stuck. I hate that it's a choice between bad and worse everywhere I turn, and quite frankly, I'm not really sure which candidate gets the "worse" position.
    • That's the original reason as to why I supported Clinton as well.

      The President doesn't have the final, absolute say in everything. I'm sure that Obama's advisors, not to mention the Legislative branch, would force some sort of foreign policy preconditions on Obama. If not, well then no, that's not something I'd like to see.

      Honestly, I can sympathize with everything you stated in your comment. For me though, I feel like as much as I'd like to tackle everything negative at once, that's simply not possible, and some things need to take priority.
  • I resent having to choose Obama because "think of the Supreme Court." Obama hasn't proven that he'll stock SCOTUS with pro-abortion justices either. He was quite happy with Roberts and almost voted for him till he was told that doing so would mean a certain death to any presidential dreams he may have on the Democratic ticket. Why should i trust him to be wise about SCOTUS choices now.

    Obama has proven wishy-washy on so many issues that I can't say he's necessarily better than McCain. I'm sorely disappointed with the Democrats, so I can't really say a Democrat is better than a Republican. We've been given two terrible choices for president IMO. I guess it's a democracy that we get to choose who we think is the lesser of two evils?
  • Oh, I did want to say I do appreciate this post, however, because I'm keeping watch over the race, all opinions, and information available, because as I said, I don't know who I'll vote for, or if I vote at all.
  • This post should really be under an LJ cut, and explicitly labeled as a pro-Obama post. So if you could edit that, it'd be helpful.

    That said, I think that you're misunderstanding where the Nobama stuff comes from.

    People aren't (for the most part) weighing McCain against Obama on policy and then going "oooh, Clearly McCain is the Progressive choice!"
    People aren't (for the most part) doing this as a pout against how Hillary was treated. But we're also not just doing what Hillary says without considering the implications of our actions. And voting for Obama now would have SERIOUS implications.
    This is a highly principled stance we're taking, and the fact that in the short term Obama might be a more progressive choice (although I honestly believe that we've been given plenty of reasons to doubt that) isn't sufficient to sway us. The Democratic party is being DESTROYED by people who are forgetting what it is supposed to be. It is failing to represent the concerns of Democrats. Morally, I simply cannot support someone who would throw anyone under the bus to get into power. I can't support that lack of integrity. And I cannot support the backroom maneuvering of the DNC. I cannot support the DNC's misogyny and assumptions that they do not need to EARN women's votes, that they are somehow OWED them. I just find that too reprehensible.

    So instead of using my vote (if I had one) as a rung on the ladder of Obama's upward ascent, I'd rather use it as a tool to make the DNC realize that they desperately need to restructure their assumptions. As Riverdaughter has said, we are in a unique position today. We finally have LEVERAGE. And we can use it to change the political discourse for the better. As much as I am committed to the everyday policy decisions (because I know how deeply they impact people and how serious that is), I cannot sacrifice this amazing opportunity to use this leverage, to change my party and country for the better. Especially not when I remain unconvinced that Obama will be significantly better for the country than McCain.
  • I respect your opinion, and I would never attack you for having one that differs from mine. However, I have many reasons for not wanting to vote for Obama. I do not like McCain at all, but I feel that an Obama presidency could be as, if not more, detrimental to this country than a McCain presidency. I definitely think an Obama presidency could ruin the Democratic Party if he behaves the same way in office as he did in the primary. I have to leave for work soon, but if you want I can message you tomorrow if you're interested in hearing more specific reasons as to why I can't support Obama.
  • I just assume that McCain is lying when he says many of the things he says. R v. W especially. I mean, McCain's always been a panderer, but he spoke at the college I went to last year, and he said something like, he's personally against abortion but he wouldn't change the status quo because he believes in states' rights, and the same goes for gay marriage.
    • I really don't want to play the "Is He Lying or Does He Mean It?" game, but that's just my opinion. It bothers me how willing politicians are to say whatever gets them votes, because I used to respect McCain so much more.
  • I don't understand why you've been blasted all day for this post, and it bums me out that you have been. I don't see this at all as an attack at proMcCain Hillary supporters in any way. In fact, it's no different than the proMcCain posts we've had where people defend him and bash Obama. And really.. you didn't even bash.

    I know we're all still hurting and sad and upset by the course of things.. but as was said earlier, Hillary is no longer a viable option right now. So we're stuck with two guys none of really liked from the get-go. It might seem senseless to some people.. those of us who look to Obama now just cause that's what Hillary would want. But so then is it just as senseless those who look to McCain now just because our feelings are all hurt.

    I'll be honest, I'm currently only touting Obama because, yes, that's what Hillary wants. BUT. I digress, doing so is leaving my mind and heart open to him in the future. Which really, is what I want. I want to be open to listening to him and giving him a chance. Because as you said, his policies are so similar. And really, with the world in the state that it's in now, policies are what matter most.
  • Blah

    I'm so conflicted. I don't want to vote for either one of them. I feel like if I vote for Obama, I'm condoning everything that happened throughout this primary, and I certainly don't want to do that. Yet, I fundamentally disagree with McCain on the issues I care most about: women's rights, choice, and health care.

    Having attended the rally in Unity, however, I have moved closer to supporting Obama. I really don't like him, I don't think he'd be a particularly good president, and I absolutely hate some of the people that could end up with cabinet positions (John Kerry, Deval Patrick, John Edwards). But I've trusted Hillary's judgement these past five years, so why should I doubt her now? She's the one that's been burned the most, and if she can put it behind her, why shouldn't I? I know some will say she only did it because she "had" to, but I think that is a really terrible thing to suggest about Hillary. The woman has principles, and I like to think she stands up for them; that's why I wanted her to be my President.

    The situation just sucks. I'm so disappointed that it's become the lesser of two evils. And, I'm even more disappointed in how vicious everyone has gotten. I find it hard to be civil myself, and I'm so sick of watching every fucking word that I type because someone's feelings might get hurt. Life's tough, get a goddamn helmet.

    Hillary, please find a way to be the President so you can save us.
  • For what its worth, I do not for one minute contest your right to post this here. Although I fundamentally disagree with your post, its unfortunate that you had to field all of this anger! I'm definitely not angry with you, and I hope you stay in this community, because we need a diversity of opinion. Your post, however, really hit a nerve with many of us. I know I personally am bombarded day after day with my friends' overwhelming, disgusted disappointment that I am not voting for Obama, and it wears on me after a while.

    So, again, sorry these comments all had to flood to you! I think most of us are pissed off at the "you are voting for McCain, therefore you are an idiot and don't know anything about politics" sentiment that we may have read into your post, even if its not what you intended at all.
    • I know I personally am bombarded day after day with my friends' overwhelming, disgusted disappointment that I am not voting for Obama, and it wears on me after a while.

      I know that feeling -- I get a similar response when people find out why I am voting for him. If I didn't feel like a vote for McKinney would be a throwaway vote, it would be enough to push me in that direction.

      I appreciate your sincerity though, I realized that I was going to push nerves, but I still feel I've seen much worse here from the other side -- what's that old saying about discussing politics or religion?
  • I really hope you stick around, X. I really like you. :)
    • That's why we're friends bb xoxo.
      The animosity I've received here though -- I don't want this every time I try to post.

  • Ah ha, never mind the last comment. I realize that I have fifty million tabs up and I just neglected to post this comment earlier. It's all written up nice and succinct, though:

    McCain's position is crystal clear: given the chance, he will overturn R v. W.



    They said this crap about Bush in 2000 and 2004. The Supreme Court ALREADY has the votes to overturn it. The PUMAs and even the people who AREN'T going to vote for McCain (not all PUMAs are going to vote for him) are utterly sick of you now-prObama people wielding the Supreme Court threat over us.
  • I will admit from the outset that I am an Obama supporter, and I appreciate your post. I of course don't agree with your personality assessment of Obama, but that's besides the point. It's not just because I'm an Obama supporter that I want him to win, but I simply believe that America can't TAKE another Republican.

    I'm hoping that maybe one day you can believe that Obama isn't cocky, elitist, or has the need to become a Kennedy, btw :)

  • Write-in Clinton

    The major news media write these days again and again that Barack Hussein should win over female vote of Hillary's supporters, see ABC for example. Hmm, I am not a female (sure!) wont vote for Obama-baby or McCain (again sure!) so ABC and the likes have counted me out. BUT NEVER COUNT OUT A CLINTON! You will see she will become a President next January. That's the point. In the meantime Barack can continue to inhale until the year 2016 and John to distance himself away from Bush until he founds himself in his Arizonian house.

    Yes, I will write-in Hillary no matter what the ballot will look like on the Election day. Go on, Hillary!
    • Re: Write-in Clinton

      You are aware that if you write in hillary, and she's not qualified as a write in, your vote will be wasted?
      I'm shocked there hasnt been mass pandamonium.
  • Hillary Would Not Approve

    These people calling themselves PUMA's who are looking to de-rail the democratic Party from winning the 2008 election are making a mistake of epic proportions. If they should succeed and McCain would win the election I know in my heart that a majority of Democrats would blame Hillary for this, though Hillary WOULD NOT APPROVE of these PUMA's actions. I don't think Hillary would even come close to getting nominated in 2012 if such a thing would happen, I really don't.

    This just hurts our party and our country. McCain must be defeated, for the country and it's people and for the world.
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